Author Topic: hba abd expander card help  (Read 4861 times)

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
hba abd expander card help
« on: April 01, 2014, 01:50:26 pm »
Hi all.

Im chasing some info on a hba card and an expander.

My system has alot of drives, 1,2,3,4tb. And i am looking to interface them in a better way then they currently are as it is a huge bottleneck. My plan is to use either 1 m1015 or a h200 and 2 24/28 port expanders. Or to use 2 m1015 and dual link the expanders into them.

Im runnibg flexraid and speed is a moderate concern. But not the largest. I just need the drives presented ti the os as is. Is is currently win 7 but will be switching to linux later down the track. So cross os compatability would be great.

So, will my plan work? What parts should i get that are compatable with eachother and hiw do i go about conbectibg the expanders to the hba?

Cheers

Jason

Offline terrastrife

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • 38TB FlexRAID
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 05:29:04 pm »
m1015  + intel/chenbro expander of your choice.
you'll need an sff 8087-sff8087 cable.
thats it, nothing left to do fi you already have the m1015 and adequate power/slots.
get rid of all but 4tb hdds first.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 05:30:53 pm by terrastrife »

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 06:49:52 pm »
Will i be better off with an ibm of a dell perc h200?

Will i be better off with 1 hba and then 2 28 port expanders off it? Or 2 hba's and then 2 expanders dual linked to them? Would that be of any benifet?

Why get rid of the other drives? They are fine as is.

Any recomendations of expanders specifically?


Cheers

Jason

Offline bdestroyer8418

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 01:49:51 am »
I believe the Dell perc h200 is only 3Gb/s if that matters to you or not.  The Chenbro I have the 36port version and what good is it can fit in any PCI/PCIe slot to lock it in (which is not needed you can just place it anywhere in the case) is powered by molex only.  The Intel needs to have a PCIe or Molex but not both someone else can confirm the Intel for you.

How many hard drives do you currently have in your setup.  You might be better off with 2 rigs.  I know that might not be what you want but could be best until you start dropping those 1TB and 2TB drives atleast the 1TB taking most of your spaces. 

I am in a spot where I'm maxed out of HDD spots but still have plenty of unused data so I can still grow just not expand now in my build at 24 in the Norco I know I can use Network Shares for Raid-F if needed. I have 8x1.5TB that are hogging too many spaces but what can I say they just work and don't need to replace them til they start throwing errors or die. I wanted to add a 2nd rig with just HDDs, Power Supply and 2nd Chenbro Expander.  Brahim commented on that and said "Don't over tax a single system. Too many disks under a single array is not a good thing". 

I was running with a expander but fell like it's just not the right way to go anymore with Flexraid.  Just sent my Motherboard in to EVGA to get a mod done so I can buy my Xeon Processor and ECC RAM not needed but for Flex but other reasons.  But moving to using 3 LSI 9201-8i HBAs which can be bought cheap on ebay.  I commented on the topic below this one and they are a great buy for the price not sure what the dell or ibm are going for these days but last I looked when looking was $100+

1 HBA with 2 SAS ports and 2 - 28 port SAS expanders should give you a total of 36 connections with using the 2nd SAS port on the HBA  Plus any onboard SATA from MB can be used.   

reply back with your build - case, motherboard etc...  maybe can get a few others to help out. 

I would like to know what Brahim recommends for the max DRUs should be used for 1 array I was up to 18 with Spanning just been holding off buying 4TB for PPUs once I do that I could span the 2TB into 4 DRUs instead of 8 singles. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 01:52:07 am by bdestroyer8418 »

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 02:13:23 am »
I have a backblaze pod, it supports 45 4tb hdds. So plenty of bays left it is of no issue.

I didnt know there was a max drives per array. Thats why i went flexraid.

Offline bdestroyer8418

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 02:41:39 am »
Pretty sure Flexraid has no max just is not recommended.  You are using all the bandwidth just from 1 PCIe or 2 if getting 2 HBAs. Probably will work fine just really really slow.  Unless I'm reading what your trying to do is wrong.  Not sure how many HDDs would max out on a single PCI-E 2.0 X8. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 03:02:09 am by bdestroyer8418 »

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 03:44:34 am »
yes, my plan is to use the hba's and the expanders to run to the 45 hdd's. at the moment, there are some dodgey SIL 3124 pci-e to sata cards, running to 9  drive port multipliers, and i was getting around 20mb/s parity. hoping that this will be much faster.

cheers

Jason

Offline terrastrife

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • 38TB FlexRAID
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 10:32:15 pm »
yes, my plan is to use the hba's and the expanders to run to the 45 hdd's. at the moment, there are some dodgey SIL 3124 pci-e to sata cards, running to 9  drive port multipliers, and i was getting around 20mb/s parity. hoping that this will be much faster.

cheers

Jason

You realise then you are going to have to remove all the backplanes and run your own data and power unless you have a V4 pod.

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 12:11:11 am »
Thats fine. I have ordered the adapter kit that makes my 3.0 pod into a 4.0.

Cheers.

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 03:03:26 am »
so, am i better off with the IBM or the Dell, and am i better off with the Intel or Chenbro expander>

also, would 2 HBA's and dual linking the expander be better than 2 expanders plugged into the the HBA? just want to eliminate the bottlenecks.

cheers

Jason

Offline terrastrife

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • 38TB FlexRAID
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 06:11:11 am »
a single multilane sas is 4x6gbit, work out if you require more than that.
the ibm and dell cards are the same thing.
same goes for intel and chenbro expanders, these also use the same lsi chipsets.

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 06:23:52 am »
ok, well as its a home media server and back up system, im sure that the single hba will be enough. and 2 intel or chenbros 28/36 port (as i can. i will have to look at what i can get.

I am thinking of the 2 chenbro 36 port expanders, as i can then run the rear ports to another case with another potential 16 drives in it.Ok, after som reading, it seems that thr rear ports cant be used as drive inputs. bummer. can anyone verify this? so i will have to look at 2 intels, and then put the remaining 5 drives onto the Mobo sata ports.

in terms of connectivity, do i just use a simple 8087 to 8087 cable to link the hba to the expander, and then 8087 to sata breakouts for the drives?

is there a specific port that the drives and hba's have to be plugged into?

cheers

Jason
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 06:29:54 am by jbates58 »

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 02:03:04 pm »
could i go for the larger intel expander? the only thing stopping me at the moment, is the weird looking conectors. they only appear to have 2 holes. or are they just covers/ caps for the ports?

cheers

Jason

Offline terrastrife

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • 38TB FlexRAID
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 06:31:46 am »
expanders are like network switches, it doesn't matter which ports are used for up- and down-stream, chenbro and hp often silkscreen IN and OUT for the ports but it doesn't change anything.

Offline jbates58

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: hba abd expander card help
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 05:26:26 pm »
ok, im looking at getting my hba and expanders today.

i am looking at this site,

http://www.servethehome.com/lsi-sas-2008-raid-controller-hba-information/

can i pick any of the cards on that site, as they are all based on the same LSI 2008 chip? so does that mean that i can look for any of them in the list and choose the cheapest one? will they all be able to be flashed into IT mode? And will they all work with the intel 36 port expander?

I have found a Dell H310 in aus for a good price, could i use that? will that need to be flashed aswell as i read that they come shipped in IT mode. is that so?

if i choose one of the higher port (16i) hba's, can i then get 4 expanders and run them into another case? i know that this may not be needed, but im thinking ahead.


i ahve purchased a m1015 today. just need the expanders now.

i also looked at the comparability of the LSI cards, and they state that they are compatible on the Gigabyte x79 UD3 using a xeon cpu, i have the x79 UD5 using a I7-4820k. will it still work? or is there a difference between the cpu's?

is there anything special that needs to be done to the expanders? or just plug and play?

im really liking the intel 36 port one, trusted brand and it seems to get good reviews. im just not sure about the plugs on the board, they look different. are they just caps in them or are they a different socket?

but, i also like the chenbro one as i think i can get it a bit cheaper, and i like the 2 external ports, it will allow me to expand a bit easier into another chassis if i ever fill the backblaze. but from what i have read, the chenbro only supports sata 1.5gb/s im not sure if that will be a problem. and i also dont know if i can use the internal port near the back panel ports as the input and the other ports as the inputs from the breakout cables. as i have read that they have specific input and output ports.

sorry for all the stupid questions. but i just want to get it right first go. its a fair amount of money. thats all.

cheers

Jason
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 02:32:57 am by jbates58 »